U.S. asset managers worried Obama could confiscate gold

Anecdotal evidence suggests some major U.S. asset managers prefer to hold gold outside the U.S. for fear of confiscation in an echo of Roosevelt's 1933 decree.

LONDON - 

Speaking at the FT Silver conference in London yesterday, lead-off speaker John Levin, HSBC Bank's Managing Director, Global Metals and Trading (HSBC is one of the world's top precious metals traders and its vaults in the U.S. and Europe hold huge holdings of gold and silver bullion) recounted conversations with some of the U.S.'s top asset managers controlling massive amounts of capital asking if HSBC had the capacity in its vaults to store major gold purchases.  On being told that the bank's U.S. vaults had sufficient space available he was told that they did not want their gold stored in the U.S.A. but preferably in Europe because they feared that at some stage the U.S. Administration might follow the path set by Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1933 and confiscate all U.S. gold holdings as part of the country's strategy in dealing with the nation's economic problems.

While in Mineweb's view such a move is unlikely, one needs to bear in mind that President Obama is a keen follower of Roosevelt's views and policies and that the very fact that some asset managers controlling huge volumes of money feel that such a move is possible is a significant factor - and one that is perhaps heightened by the huge amounts of money flowing into gold at the moment in both ETFs and bullion.

As a reminder to readers - Section 2 of Roosevelt's Act read as follows:  All persons are hereby required to deliver on or before May 1, 1933, to a Federal Reserve bank or a branch or agency thereof or to any member bank of the Federal Reserve System all gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates now owned by them or coming into their ownership on or before April 28, 1933, except the following:

(a) Such amount of gold as may be required for legitimate and customary use in industry, profession or art within a reasonable time, including gold prior to refining and stocks of gold in reasonable amounts for the usual trade requirements of owners mining and refining such gold.

(b) Gold coin and gold certificates in an amount not exceeding in the aggregate $100.00 belonging to any one person; and gold coins having recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins.

(c) Gold coin and bullion earmarked or held in trust for a recognized foreign government or foreign central bank or the Bank for International Settlements.

(d) Gold coin and bullion licensed for the other proper transactions (not involving hoarding) including gold coin and gold bullion imported for the re-export or held pending action on applications for export license.

At that time of course, the dollar was exchangeable for gold at a set value ($20.67 an ounce) so compensation for such a move would have been easy to calculate.  Roosevelt subsequently revalued gold to the $35 level which stood for over 30 years.   Nowadays that kind of process would be a little more difficult, but perhaps not beyond the means of a government, already versed in printing large sums of money to try and re-stimulate the economy.  Perhaps a figure of the average gold price over a 3 month period at a certain date would meet an initial compensation valuation, but in today's much more litigious society such a move might well fail anyway.

Indeed current economic analysis of the Roosevelt move suggests that it was not successful in helping drag the U.S. out of depression and indeed may have contributed to a recession within a depression - a pretty dire situation.  It probably took World War II to end the Great Depression.

Levin's presentation - a trader's view from the coal-face as he put it - contained much anecdotal material of interest and was a refreshing change from the usual analysts' viewpoints.  More of that in a subsequent article.

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responses to this article

Gold FYI by Jason_silverman@ml.com on June 10 2010, 08:03 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Gold A great article. My question is why would the government pay anything for the gold? What would stop them from simply confiscating it with no compensation to the owner. by Owen K. on June 10 2010, 08:22 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

A point in the article People in the US have the misconception (because of our geography) that war helps the economy, and ends depressions. I believe what ended the depression for us was that WWII destroyed the economies and infrastructure of everyone else leaving our . .more intact to service and sell products to the world while no one else could compete and had to buy from us. I have to thank Congressman Ron Paul for once pointing this out to me that war in fact destroys wealth, and does not put it to productive use, the money goes into bombs that get dropped, and expenses that don't come back to serve us. It erroneously implies government spending is better than private spending. Just consider this. If we ever have a war where our cities are bombed nearly out of existence like happens to everyone else we would see that war destroys wealth. We should not be so blinded by our past history war to think that can't happen. War never hits at your strengths, that's the point. . .less by James on June 10 2010, 09:16 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Who Is Obama? Nothing this President does surprises me. After all, who is he? He seems to shill for Goldman Sachs and other entities who favor a globalist regime. He seems oblivious to the needs of working Americans and our country's laws. He's not the same man . .more he claimed to be when running for the presidency. Who or what Obama is remains a mystery. . .less by Bob Fredericks on June 10 2010, 09:55 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

James is right To James on June 10 2010, 09:16, yes, you are exactly right! In the case of the US, during the war our standard of living stayed as low as during the depression; all of our hard work was going to make items which did not make our life better. . .more Because our factories (greatly expanded and modernized during the war) were not bombed and destroyed, as soon as the war ended we had at hand an efficient and profitable means of production that had not existed before. THAT is what pulled America out of the depression. The only way to make everyone wealthier is to produce more wealth. Not more money, not more pieces of paper, but more wealth! . .less by Jason Calley on June 10 2010, 10:24 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Really good article. I wonder if it ever came to confiscation again, would the gov go back through all of your financial transactions such as banking, large cash with drawls, or even Ebay transactions to see if you had spent any money on gold and then come after you? . .more Any thoughts on that? . .less by Shad on June 10 2010, 10:47 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

confiscation by other government I have the same question as Shad, as that will answer frankania why gov't may still confiscate without paying. Also, what's stopping other governments from confiscating gold in their counties just because they hadn't done it before? by Kaz on June 10 2010, 10:58 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

It ain't the 1930s anymore People trusted the government more then. I suspect that if the government tries to confiscate gold it will have the same results as if they try to confiscate guns. A lot of dead confiscators. by j r on June 10 2010, 11:17 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Come and Get It Come and get my gold if you must. It may be possible but it won't be easy. by R C on June 10 2010, 11:27 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

How much? How much gold does the Fed. Gov. have now? How much gold is actually 'out there' in the U.S. that could be confiscated? While I put NOTHING past the current administration, is there actually enough privately held gold in the U.S. to make it worth . .more confiscating compared with the amount of gold the Fed. Gov. already has? It won't make a dent in our runaway debt (unless the price of gold goes into the stratosphere). . .less by Sparky on June 10 2010, 11:51 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

obama confiscating gold Dear Team,is obama going to confiscate gold before the 22nd of november 2010.If so i will get it out of account with everbank.regards.patrick by patrick o'sullivan on June 10 2010, 12:23 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

The new 3rd party Republicrats Current administration this, current administration that. As if GW Bush was a friend of the constitution? Get real! They're ALL crooked as a stick. Just a different wolf in sheep's clothing. Ron Paul will never be allowed to be president . .more so you might as well forget that pipe dream. Sure they'll confiscate gold. Sure they'll tax us all off our land. Propertied, self sufficient citizens are much harder to bring into conformity. Much more difficult to accept the "chip" and the loss of cash. . .less by Rugged on June 10 2010, 12:39 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Our country needs to use gold as currency A gold confiscation sounds extremely counter-productive. The fact that the Chinese are encouraging gold/silver ownership would also make such a move look stupid. Perhaps HSBC is most concerned about ETF gold confiscation -- that would be relatively . .more easy to pull off. Great comments above about the statement in the article "It probably took World War II to end the Great Depression" . .less by Pete on June 10 2010, 12:57 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Gold confiscation and big government and WWII We can only hope the government tries to take the gold. Seems like a good trigger to tip us toward a needed revolution. Although hunger would probably be more effective. Most people have probably sold any gold they had to buy unneeded . .more fluff. Also, those who think WWII ended the Great Depression do so because of a love for war, not an understanding of economics. . .less by Fritz Groszkruger on June 10 2010, 12:57 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

let them think they can only the sheeple would give it up. by not in my name on June 10 2010, 13:32 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Good political move if economic SHTF? Doesn't matter whether confiscation will do any good or not. If the economic SHTF then Robbing Hood will do whatever he thinks will make him look like he is trying to do something to fix it. Might be a good move politically. Very few own the . .more stuff or know much about it compared to the whole population. Plus it could make him look like he is going after those rich guys on Wall St. who he would claim caused the problems. . .less by Matt L. Detectre on June 10 2010, 15:22 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

hoarders specualtors Roosevelt blamed the gold hoarders Nixon the dollar speculators. They LOVED Roosevelt for stealing peoples gold. Those with nothing will be glad the government steals it again. We are nation of men / women not laws. Democracy for you (that we have . .more become) . .less by fred on June 10 2010, 16:07 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Counterproductive in today world.. >> Any thoughts on that? . Any confiscation on part of USA will put it in worse position for the simple reason that this will fire back, cause all the gold will flow out of USA to all the countries around the world.. It is . .more counterproductive to confiscate it unless the money is based on gold standard and even then in today world it will be short term positive and long term negative to the American economy.. One more thing this will totally jeopardize the position of the dollar, because it will show clearly to the world that us gov. does not value its own money. Don't forget that the majority of the $ and $-denominated assets is hold outside of usa.. close to 6T, those will flow into usa causing hyper inflation and all the confiscated and current us gold holdings will flow out... cause no foreigner will be stupid enough to want to be paid in dollars. (The act of confiscating will be the one that will show to anyone with brain that even the gov. value gold over $, I'm repeating this to show the cause of why) I don't say they can't try to confiscate, just that it wont work. . .less by me on June 10 2010, 17:10 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Good Reason To Confiscate Historically, Obama has a better reason to confiscate gold than Roosevelt. If you are going to hyper-print dollars, there is no better thermometer than gold to document your currency's devaluation. by Al on June 10 2010, 17:23 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Time to leave the USA? America is clearly being looted at the moment. Those in the inner circle at Wall Street are reaping the harvest while the middle/lower class labour for the gamblers mistakes and greed. The government will take away your gold and silver and anyone . .more who doesnt hand it over will be an enemy of the state. Maybe these FEMMA camps are gaining some truth in their future purpose . .less by Matt Nel on June 10 2010, 17:48 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

There's no way they take gold Attempting to confiscate gold would be the equivalent of admitting that their paper is not money. I say there is no way that happens. by Island_dweller on June 10 2010, 18:15 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Declare Bankruptcy or??? Better as a nation that the U.S. simply default on its overseas debts. Time to circle the wagons and let the outsiders wear the pain. by No Name on June 10 2010, 19:17 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Technically, what is being discussed here is Nationalization of Gold, not confiscation. That is because (under the scenario being discussed) people would be paid a ~market value for their metal. by Pete on June 10 2010, 19:19 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

ridiculous/confication confiscate what? if the govt confiscated gold, the amount in dollar terms is insignificant when one thinks of trillions. not even a drop in the bucket. the reason for the article is HSBC and other bullion banks are short gold and are . .more trying to break the market with the release of this. nothing more than a psychological ploy to cover their positions should they accomplish getting a small price break. the shorts are wrong, they are grasping at mere psychological straws to try to influence others to sell. dont buy into their weak BS. . .less by george bloom on June 10 2010, 19:38 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

End of the depression WWII did NOT end the depression. This is a most dangerous fallacy that needs to be address whenever it is stated, because warmongers will use it as an excuse to bomb and kill even more innocent little brown people. The great depression ended when . .more all the malinvestment was wrung out of the system and the gov't interference in the markets was largely reversed, especially wage and price controls and the extensive abandonment of consumer good production that lasted though the war years. The war didn't end the depression, ending the war ended the depression. See Robert Higgs on this topic. How supposedly grown-up people can continue to think that the most destructive activity of mankind could ever cause any positive effect is beyond me. . .less by Cathy on June 10 2010, 20:23 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Gold Confiscation I can't imagine the government confiscating gold now. Like an earlier poster said, the gold Americans have is just a drop in the bucket among trillions of dollars. Also things are much different now. Now that the US dollar is not based on a gold . .more standard there's no point in confiscating gold. When it was first confiscated they wanted to devalue the dollar and they couldn't really do that while gold was circulating. Nobody would want paper money if they had the choice of gold instead. The people who had gold would suddenly have twice as much money as the people who had paper money and nobody would want to risk holding paper money again. It would defeat the purpose of having paper money. I own gold via a closed end fund, stock symbol GTU, that hold gold and is located in Canada. There's something about it being in Canada that makes me feel more comfortable, although that is not the reason I chose it. I guess part of me feels that if things got really crazy here in the US I could take my stock certificates to Canada and live there for a while. I expect things would be more stable there as they don't have the debt, deficit, and banking problems that we do. . .less by Ken P. on June 10 2010, 20:42 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

gold confiscation do you believe that the government, having outlawed gold ownership for some 42 years, all of the sudden believed it was in the best interest of its citizens to own it? Does anyone believe that? The government knew it was in the governments best . .more interest for its citizens to own gold so that one day they could get their grubby hands on it if need be. At $1200 an ounce it may not seem like much but at $5000? When the currency collapses, i say when not if, they may need something to back the new specie . .less by fred on June 10 2010, 22:05 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Ruse to Scare Us Away from Physical? If I read GATA (Gold Anti Trust Action) correctly today they see a possible ruse. Scare people away from physical possession into overseas paper gold. Keeps the paper game going. by Matt L. Detectre on June 10 2010, 23:09 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Obama's Gold Confiscation Saw this posted on coininfo as an April 1 fools joke. I guess that this could turn into reality. by richard on June 11 2010, 00:43 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

tangible asset end issue of fear for gold confiscation Gold is tangible asset, and an universal monetary instrument. The only issue is that it cannot identifiable when changing hand, all governments want to control what they own and what not, I believe in one point scientist will find a way to mark the . .more gold as marking the diamond in Canada. So, they can trace where the gold is belong which government. Facts are gold over top any monetary paper that the government is pretended print and to control the mass economy. And, that is near end issue of fear for gold confiscation, when the time come. . .less by groupbui on June 11 2010, 06:06 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

yea right BO would have to confiscate the guns first before American's give up their gold & silver. And that isn't going to happen in the United States of America. by James on June 11 2010, 07:13 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Idiotic and lacking understanding of history and economics This story is so idiotic that I can only gather it was written as some underhanded way of injecting Obama into the "Gold" story. The only reason Roosevelt confiscated gold was in order to free up monetary policy during the Great Depression. It . .more obviously slipped the writer's attention that we were, in fact, on a Gold Standard during the Depression. Therefore, the amount of gold in "circulation" determines liquidity of monetary assets as all oustanding banknotes must be backed by gold. The reason to return gold to the Federal Reserve from the horders was to free up monetary policy thus allowing more money to be injected into the economy. Because we are no longer even close too a Gold Standard any longer there would be absolutely no purpose in confiscating gold from horders. Although this fact may disappoint some who believed Roosevelt and now Obama to be crazy socialist who do things like confiscating gold just to be evil because that is what evil socialists do, it is time to take a breath and get a grip! . .less by Michael on June 11 2010, 08:41 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

gold Goldfinger to those who think it matters. Who controls everything? Lovers of Money. Follow the money and you will find the 'Root of all Evil.' Can't eat money or gold. Labor is the real Gold of Life. Barterville is the town to seek. Lead is the most . .more precious metal. Reasoning hasn't worked--now 'Might is right' and it always has been. All religions come down to this. Their God will dictate in the end--is their mantra. Buck up my comrads and get ready for the ride of your life. You will be hated for Loving the Enemy--so you better be Patriotic and hate them 'cause as everyone knows---these are the words of a lunatic. Fear is a slow Death. . .less by Lunatic on June 11 2010, 08:50 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Oh no, the gov would'nt do that Seems a lot of the comments on this site presume a gov too weak or too benevalent to take their gold. When it happens it will be a breath taking event for you and yours but the gov will hardly notice your loss. The news media will go along with it . .more like it's another non-event. We no longer live in a free country. That notion is a relect of the past. . .less by robert on June 11 2010, 09:15 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Gold confiscation The gov. would pay the face value of the coin, I'm betting. by Warmblood on June 11 2010, 11:08 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Gold If gold is confiscated, chances are that silver would be also. I say this, in about 2006, the U.S. government declared silver as a 'strategic metal,' Sorry, but I no longer have the reference, but it is in the Code of Federal . .more Regulations, probably in Title 50. . .less by Rick May on June 11 2010, 11:22 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Over my dead body I won't hand in my gold ever. To Obama and his thugs, I won't ever hand over my gold to your sorry rear. You can't manage the finances of this country.You and your minions are nothing, but thieves. I am not handing it in to become homeless. Sorry, You and your thugs are . .more gutless and soulless cowards that deliver empty promises. Your hope and change is meaningless. My answer is NO. Not ever over my dead body. Our money says In G-d we trust. It doesn't say in Obama we trust. . .less by Liz on June 11 2010, 11:26 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

A transfer tax Another technique may be used to steal the wealth from Americans is a transfer tax on gold. In some states a tax is levied on the transfer of real estate. In my state, 1% is paid by both the seller and the buyer. As similar 15% tax could be . .more levied on gold transfers. Watch out! . .less by Henry on June 11 2010, 11:26 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

George Bloom has got it right!! he reason for the article is HSBC and other bullion banks are short gold and are trying to break the market with the release of this. nothing more than a psychological ploy to cover their positions should they accomplish getting a small price . .more break. the shorts are wrong, they are grasping at mere psychological straws to try to influence others to sell. dont buy into their weak BS Get Physical and do it NOW! . .less by Babs on June 11 2010, 12:08 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

p. metals see fake metal bars. or store one's metal... in several areas w/ respect for law etc by al greene on June 11 2010, 13:57 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Is This Story Believable It is very different in 2010 than it was in 1933. In 1933, America was on the gold standard and most people owned physical gold. Today its much different, a very small percentage of the American population actually owns any gold. I think this . .more story is more fear mongering than anything. . .less by irma on June 11 2010, 14:46 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

I don't know why the Govt. would confiscate everyones Gold I read online that: Gold is a bubble. You can't eat Gold. You can't buy anything with Gold. Gold doesn't have any instrinsic value. Gold is just a hunk of yellow metal. /s by Martin on June 11 2010, 15:03 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Stalin Confiscated Gold by Food Shortage In Ukraine, Staling created an artificial food shortage and made food purchasable in silver and gold, so people had no choice but to "trade" their gold for food to survive. Quite subverted tactic, he didn't even need to "confiscate" it, people . .more brought it on their own. Coins may be illegal to use, so have some gold jewelry to trade with also. Silver and other precious metals (platinum & rhodium) in smaller amounts may be a good idea. . .less by ReasonForLife on June 11 2010, 15:11 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

US Treasury Gold Certificates held by the Fed GOLD CERTIFICATES: http://www.eagletraders.com/advice/securities/gold_certificates.htm How many of these $100,000 Gold Certificates were issued by our Treasury exclusively for the private Federal Reserve banking cartel following the . .more confiscation of this gold from the people? How many have already been redeemed for our Treasury gold bullion? Or, are these certificate claims being double counted by both Treasury and the Fed? Since they are redeemable in "$100,000 in Gold" does that mean at the Treasury Official price of $42.22 per ounce, or at the current market price over $1,200? This scheme to defraud Americans is clear evidence that Gold is, indeed, still the lawful money upon which our fiat paper castles are teetering. This issue screams for Transparency and Accountability! 7. Custody of Reserve Notes, Gold Certificates, and Lawful Money How Many are there, and Who Holds these Legal Tender Claims on our Gold Lawful Money? see Fed link: http://www.federalreserve.gov/aboutthefed/section16.htm . .less by Charleston Voice on June 11 2010, 16:11 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

When will thye US confiscate gold If the government continue spending and monetizing their debt someday the paper money becomes worthless; look at Zimbabwe, gold and silver then will be the only means of transaction. Gold and silver is insurance for armageddon. by kir on June 11 2010, 16:39 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Rethink your paranoia. They won't confiscate gold ! Irma is absolutely correct. Up until 1933 the dollar was directly backed by gold at a fixed price. You could go to any bank and exchange your dollars for gold. In fact it said that right on the currency - "payable in gold on demand". Gold was . .more used as money and paper currency was simply a convenient device for handling transactions. Roosevelt severed the connection between gold and money by permitting the government to create money backed by nothing. It had to destroy the use of gold as money to do so. That's the reason it was confiscated. Now here we are today. Gold is still not used as money and since it is not, the government will have no reason to confiscate it. Goods and services will still be exchanged based on our fiat currency. When inflation hits - everything will cost more, and all hard goods will appear to increase in dollar value, including gold. I recommend a lot of people here rethink their bomb shelter mentality - if you think it through logically , your fear won't make any sense. . .less by Bob on June 11 2010, 22:33 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Paranoia or not My 3rd precious metal is Pb - and before they get to my Ag or Au, they get my Pb. ANY thief looking to take my silver or gold will be met with lead first. These are strange times and the words "that can never happen" are likely to see you eating . .more them. Prepare yourself as best you can. Strange things happen in strange times. . .less by Lincoln on June 12 2010, 02:55 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Nothing stops the USA going back to the gold standard In order to equate it's debt to it's gold holdings the US needs a gold price of /- $ 40 000 /oz.. If it nationalise all private gold at current prices and then go back on the gold standard - it will get away with a much lower gold price. It . .more will reset the price , pay all it's creditors (in gold) , wait a few years , go off the gold standard and carry on spending . . .less by Koos Roos on June 12 2010, 06:08 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Re: Michael above 1. Stop calling people "Horders". This is a psycological control tactic used by thoes with an agenda to divert from seriously concidering a topic. Name calling and minimalizing is done with an agenda. The precious metal that people own is an . .more investment like many other types of investments, i.e. stocks. Do you concider Buffett a " Horder" ? 2. Gold is the KEY to the modern fiscal game continuing and the powers that be know it. So it is not beyond the pale to think the goverment will "allow" people to sell them their gold in order to further control the game. 3. You again use steering words and phrases like "crazy socialist" and "evil socialist" to make readers belive they are silly for concidering this topic. Classic political tactic. Please everyone, watch out for people who use these methods to steer the sheep herd. You will hear a lot of it during election season. Not that it really matters who you vote for ......really. . .less by jabba 2011 on June 12 2010, 09:00 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

i dare you to try to take my gold go ahead. try to take it. see what you get. by citizen ron on June 13 2010, 09:58 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Stupid article This article is extremely sloppy.: Obama allegedly admires FDR, so he will confiscate gold, brecause FDR did so. Maybe he'll declare war on Japan, because FDR did that as well. by Gt on June 13 2010, 13:29 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

GOLD LET THEM TRY by UNLIKELY on June 15 2010, 02:16 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

gold Amen to that " Let them try!!! Remember proabition?? by david on July 08 2010, 23:55 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

gold I wont give it to them ever!!! by bud on July 24 2010, 22:39 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Gold Hey Gt, Obama has already declared war on Japan. Just ask the people at Toyota. by Johnboy43 on July 30 2010, 09:52 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

Confiscate gold will kill dollar 60 percent of US dollars are located overseas. Confiscate gold will send signal that something is wrong with dollar. Foreignors will massively dump the dollar causing more headaches for the fed gov then it is worth the gold takened. I think high . .more taxes when you sell your gold for dollars is more likely scenario. . .less by fee on August 01 2010, 13:09 Find this comment inappropriate? Report it

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